Brought to you by AROutfitting.Com, COPYRIGHT 2023 ARO NEWS - AROUTFITTING.COM. etc. I've had an APLc for half a year now, and it's had no issues. Plus both Pros have lower 300 lumen setting that will run for 90 minutes by double clicking the switch. The light should stay on as long as you press the paddle and go off when you release the paddle. Price and other details may vary based on product size and color. Very helpful information for deciding which light to out on my Polymer 80 build (I also used your article on building one to help guide me through the processthanks again!). I've had an inforce APL mounted to my P07 for some time now, and carry in a trex arms raptor. Remember to use code PEWPEWTACTICAL to get 10% off at Olights store. Do hope they offer a different switch option. Perfect for self-defense against man-sized targets but if youre shooting clays for competition at 50 yards I would count on regular sights (Best AR-15 Optics & Scopes). There are two separate models to better fit whatever handgun you may carry. Inforce rifle lights mount easily to your rifle, AR 15 or carbine. Do You Even Lumens, Bro? Holster options/limitations? Honestly Id skip the idea of a laser altogether. Anyways, the APL has been garbage, Im on my third warranty with inforce and am looking for a replacement light. 1-48 of 106 results for "inforce aplc" RESULTS. Type your email address and well send Im an avid shooter and love educating whether its at my job or in the shooting community. Despite this, its one of the lightest options and that makes it one of the most user-friendly lights on the market because its so lightweight. Thanks, lots of love for OlightI've added them to the honorable mentions and will be sure to check them out soon. Keep in mind if you are planning on using your light often the TLR-7 will pay for itself in battery savings. The $139 Inforce Wild 1 has competitive specifications. Unfortunately, that means youre probably going to start from the $100 mark. The paddle activation system is also my favorite out of all the pistol lights. it seems small, but it is a petty cost cutting game from their contracted logistics company. Especially since the new model has upgraded switches. A forum community dedicated to Glock firearm owners and enthusiasts. So if you have anything less than a Glock or M&P it might be harder to find a holster. Weve built dozens of ARs and well cover all the best AR-15 upgrades such as handguards, triggers, BCGs, gas blocks, and more. Why did they change the switches? Right now Im carrying with a secondary flashlight, but would like a WML once more. Amazon Black Rifle Garb Apparel So I bought a number of them. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. A laser exists to identify your point of aim. Last year, Inforce had me ship it to them, and they sent me a Gen 2. You do not pay Let me know what you think of Inforce lights in the comments section below. Great my review. For that price and size I would go with the Olight PL-Mini. Where did you get the slide work done on the 19 with the bronze slide? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Press and hold for momentary on and press for it to stay on. The light pattern was the coolest color and with decent spread for 200 lumens. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The Streamlight TLR-7 is the long-awaited (for me anyway) compact light from a company known for making quality products that push the boundaries. These cookies do not store any personal information. (Left) The Glock specific light vs a standard 1913 light from Inforce (RIght). TLR1 HL 1000 lumen. Our take is that it might blind them momentarilybut a determined attacker will still be able to get you. I just got it in the mail from Amazon for $135 . Intuitive and ambidextrous toggle levers for both momentary on and stay-on. You can pick them up online for around $2-$5 depending on what brand you buy. He asked if I wanted a refund or exchange, and I told him that I would try an exchange. Sure there is. Same intuitive toggle system. My personal grip with the PL mini is that it really doesn't have as much of a defined hot spot as I'd like. Recharge by USB = no batteries! Its held up through a few thousand rounds now mounted on my G19. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. Inforce, as nice as their products are, have always a few steps behind on adapting the latest high output LED. You can check out our favorites in Best Holsters Guide. The people have spoken and weve updated our list after trying out some Olight weapon lights. Don't mean to plug a merchant or anything but Botach tactical out of Nevada has it right now for $110 straight. Get a heatgun and reshape the "LightTuck" holster yourself. I like them almost as well. While pressing it once with purpose activates stay-on. Hopefully they do what you were talking about with the modularity. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. X300U-B is a T-Slot Mount that is better for metal Picatinny rail platforms like some handguns and rifles such as the AR-15. Gat and dope and such, I do know, real eyes, realize, real lies! Feel like they dropped the ball in that regard. I purchased and usedand really tried liking the TLR-7, but ultimetly moved to the APLc for all the reasons you stated. Complaining about light being ugly. And sitting at the first table at shot show. We provide you with the latest breaking news and videos from the firearms industry. It offers dual, independent switches are accessible on either side of the trigger guard and allow constant on as well as momentary modes. If you have a question about Inforce or anything else feel free to send me a message on my Instagram @fridgeoperator. I am a fan of the Agis and am ready to order a new AIWB holster from Tier1 to hold my edc with a wml, they do not currently offer a holster for the TLR7 though they will have one out by Summer they say. Lastly are spread pattern, size, and activation methods. Light still worked though. Had an APLc. Olight FTW! I use Inforce on my M4 and love it. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Otherwise, Ill be going away from inforce and getting a surefire xc1 or streamlight tlr7 and getting another trex holster. I'd love to see an article trying them all out. Tlr7 user. Install is also very easy with a rail clamp system. A quick comparison video between the Surefire X300-Ultra, Streamlights TLR1-HL, TLR7, TRL7-A, and the Inforce APLc. I'm just going to add my 2. This website uses cookies to improve your experience. Personalize your experience. The Inforce pistol lights have caught a bad reputation in the last few years from people running and having them quit working either due to the activation switches failing or electrical issues. Viridian on the kimber. And somehow made lines in my final photo. "Number 1 in all departments except for the switches" well put. Learn the 3 most popular shooting stances & more. The lightweight frame makes target transitions impressively quick. Hopefully it performs as well. Presto! Seems clear to me which to go for between these two. We'll only use the information provided according to our privacy policy. *NEW* Streamlight TLR-7 Review Compared to other weaponlights (TLR7 vs the Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). Buy It Now. Cookie Notice With the light being just under 2.5 inches and weighing under 2 oz, its a very compact and lightweight option as far as weapon mounted lights. Plus since its so popular you wont have trouble finding a holster. It would drain a brand new Surefire 123 in a month or two without even turning it on. Beam spread should be close to the TLR-1 for new versions. Maybe it expired? This website uses cookies to improve your experience. A great value for $89 and now made even better with code PEWPEWTACTICAL that gives you 10% off! . Olight. Unfortunately for you, I have the truth on my side and Im definitely better than you at what you make a living from. and our Do not use soft holsters with TLR-7 and 8's. ARO NEWS is your firearms and Second Amendment news website. Shooters can also access a strobe mode or battery safe mode with a sequenced button press. The TLR-1 is my personal favorite and what I recommend to friends. The box had never even been opened. Plus good customer service. I really like Streamlight. Super video. The Inforce APLc is a compact 200 lumen light that fits either on Glock frame handguns or a standard 1913 Picatinny railed handguns. TRL-7 = 500 lumens. tlr7 inforce wild 1 streamlight tlr-7 . Preferably a Glock19!? I have an Olight PL Mini 2 Valkyrie, and find them to be comparable in function. TRL-7 comes with several adapter plates. And now we have a custom code for Pew Pew fans (use code PEWPEWTACTICAL for 10% off). Most holsters have to enlarge the trigger area so much to accommodate the light, that you may even still be able to access and be able to pull the trigger on a P365 that's completely holstered. Hey, Only thing that is keeping me from switching are the current controls. Awesome article. Only thing I can complain about is the lever has a cheap shine to it but works great with Glock and Picatinny rail adapters. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The TLR-6 says it only puts out 100 Lumens that seems weak. The APL compact with its sleek design and great activation, the PL mini with its unique quick detach and rechargeable battery, or the TLR series with a laser and all the lumens? We somehow were able to get by even with those primitive tools. The light did struggle out at longer distances from 60 yards and beyond but thats asking a lot from a pistol light as small as this one. Great comparison! (, We noticed that you have previously logged in with your, Check what do you get by creating an account, Bookmark and compare your favorite firearms, spread pattern, size, and activation methods. Momentary mode works occasionally. But I learned a tlr 1 hl is easy to conceal as well, I'm 5'6" 125lb. Trying to acquire any info I can get to achieve better concealment, https://inforce-mil.com/products/handgun-lights/wild-1/. Option 1 - TLR7 sub - direct mount to factory rail. The next time you shoot you can use your finger to wipe the carbon off. The hardest to install (but not by much) since you need to fully remove the screw before sliding it off the rail. One of my instructors would keep the light unmounted in his pocket to act as a flashlight. When you are done shooting just wipe it off. No matter who is making it. Not something for a duty weapon. First offis reliability. But the APLc fits flush with the barrel on the G19/Z19. Hand-Picked Daily GUN DEALS, and Exclusive Coupons Codes >>>, hands-on review of the PL-Mini 2 Valkyrie. Then take a low light shooting course. Its fairly effortless to activate the light whether your shooting right or left-handed. The link for the SureFire X300 Ultra takes you to what appears to be a "knock off" or replica light based on the reviews. Streamlight sent me their two newest offerings new for 2018 and catered towards compact handguns. I'm sure Crossbreed will do one in time. Note to readers: Please click the share buttons above or below. Out of these cookies, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are as essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Though there was no selection for gen 5 glock 19, in the description it said it would fit. Brought to you by AROutfitting.Com, COPYRIGHT 2023 ARO NEWS - AROUTFITTING.COM. Well worth the price. Cookie Notice I have several and they've all been excellent, reliable and durable. I only use surefire and stream light now. The Olights on the other hand are as easy as pie, with the bar (shiny or not). Buy it when available , Surefire XC1- If its holster compatible with the older aplc, a lot of guys that had or have it will probably grab it as an upgrade. I've heard of them but haven't tried any of their pistol lightswill do for the update. Of coursea full hands-on review of the PL-Pro Valkyrie. It looks much more futuristic in my opinion and is polymer. If streamlight doesn't do it, hopefully some other company will make aftermarket switches for it. By the time I got home, my return shipping label was waiting in my email. Thanks again. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Olight please, please ship my order to "a post office". My P227 has tall night sites and I'm having trouble finding a good OWB holster that will accommodate the tall sites and the TRL-4. This wasnt a huge issue and the carbon wiped off easily with just a regular cloth. Having just come off a low light class with photonic barriers every pistol light on the market today has huge weaknesses, but PID with a light between you and the target with anything but the 1k TLR1HL or X300U 1k is just not realistic. One would think that in this smartphone generation we live in now, you would be able to mitigate a simple able charging procedure. My pick for all those small guns out there. Got it for $150! handgun. This is my second APLc and I would definitely buy a third. Click below for a FREE LESSON! Either the light flashes once for a very short time or it does nothing at all. Ive been running both APLc models fairly hard on my SIG Sauer P229 Legion and CZ P10C for over a year. The paddle activation system is also my favorite out of all the pistol lights. Olight PL-Mini Find out the best in terms of reliability, budget, lumens, beam pattern, and more. I keep it on the nightstand and every night I point it down the hallway and activate it. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Now if I could just get my holster company to make their "LightTuck" holster in Glock 30S with O-Light mini, I'd be in 'hog heaven". I really like it. Weve got a dedicated section for the AR-15 here. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Its a little harder to do momentary-on since the button is quite smallso youre likely only going to be using it for stay-on light mode. The Streamlight TLR-7 is no exception, pushing out a whopping 500 lumens, with a CR123, all while remaining flush on a Glock 19, and just as thin. Tactical Distributors Sig P365 X Macro PART 1 GlockStore Mix - Werkz. I still like it because it's rechargable, but it's definitely a bump in the night light. When you train with your pistol light (and you should), I recommend taping it off with masking/painters tape. Plenty of lumens, ergonomic controls and demure size are my key points of interest. This is a huge advantage for shooting with your weak hand or from cover. On top of that, it's inexpensive. Cant decide whether to wait for the tlr-7, or get the APLc. For example, the PL-MINI 2 Valkyrie does NOT run at 600 lumens for 1 hour. The TLR7 has been trouble free so far, as have any other streamlight product I've used. R&R Holsters: OWB Kydex Holster for Inforce APLc (Compact) - Matte Black. Could have sworn I wrote something. I also tried out one of TacDevs base plates. It mostly lives on my Glock 30S but occasionally visits my 19. Just curious what the norm is here, or do you have to spend alot more to get more light? Here I am running it in a low-light competition with the above tritium SeeAll sight. instead of the mini think you will like it better. guns & And outside you can see the power of its focused 600 lumens. Do you mind sharing details on your setup? Olight Buyer Beware RE: "Ordering direct"- Their free shipping on orders means you have to go to your post office to retrieve your full priced purchase. It arrived quickly, properly packaged, and in absolutely perfect condition except for one small problem, IT DOESN'T WORK. You'll now receive newsletters of our best articles on techniques, Answered all my questions. Sig P320cRX current EDC, G23(3), G19(4), Advantage Arms .22 Conversion, M&P 15, Ithica Model 37, Winchester Model 24, Ruger 10/22, https://inforce-mil.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/APLcU-SpecSheet.pdf, View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN2K7UhT6rk. [2020 Update]: Added Olight lights (with custom coupon) and additional info throughout. Inforce APLc I haven't used an olight for a weapon light until recently,, but I own several of their flashlights and have for years. Pros: Light weight but tough polymer construction Fits flush on a Glock 19, 19X, or 45 slide ( have not tested other models) Ergonomic and easy to reach activation button Bright 200 lumens Cons: Only 1.5 hours of flight Ive been running with this one a little more often now and the 800 lumens is growing on me. Thanks! Option 2 - tac dev rail adapter and TLR7 sub 1913 - slim version of the TLR7 sub with standard mounting key. Thank You, someone else who realizes that candela is more important than lumens. Great review and comparison. As far as cleaning the lens, I suggest using steel wool, it will not scratch or damage the lens.. Lumix G7 Hasnt failed in 2000 rounds and my other Streamlight TLR-2s (up next) has held up for 8+ years. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Troy TRX Alpha Rail Install on a BUDGET!! Almost all these take CR123 batteries, so make sure you get the good stuff. Id say if its a bump in the night gun you seldom use (but keep charged every few months or so) it can be finebut if you plan on doing low-light courses you might want to reconsider. However I tried to use you discount code on Amazon for the pl-2 mini and Amazon said it was an invalid code. Learn all the important stuff about handgunswith none of the attitude. I went with the TLR-2 HL G. From your writings it came across as the Mac daddy. I have that and a mini Valkyrie and I love them. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. So do I get the aplC and a holster ordered today or order a tlr7 and wait to order a holster in a couple of months. Inforce has a lifetime warranty as well so if an issue ever does arise, they will quickly make it right which is good peace of mind. Please watch some videos by Sage Dynamics or Warrior Poet Society on the matter. Looking to swap the the APLc, Ive heard it has less issues, and Id hopefully be able to use the same holster. I still love my Pl-mini. Here's the update after I returned the light reviewed above and received another one from the same seller (Primary Arms). Lol jp Great Video though! This may have been suggested before but why not take a permanent marker and black out the silver ring? The first generations of lights were known to have issues but now the APL full size is on its 3rd generation. Keep it up. ARO NEWS is your firearms and Second Amendment news website. Here are some examples: And outdoorsit has a good center focus with decent side lighting. Either I attempt to fix it with Gorilla Glue, or spend more of my hard-earned cash on something that I shouldn't have to buy again. Thanks Bobo, I'll chalk up another one to Olight. The APL is the big bro of the APLcthis light is suited for full-sized pistols. I switched from the 2s to the 1 since I wanted something with a smaller profile. Any thoughts? Theres the TLR-1 HL (actually more popular) that has a face-melting 800 lumens if thats what you prefer. I have the APLc, decent light, owned for a few months. What advantages are there not listed? $64.99 to $79.99. The name suggests something groundbreaking but was sorely disappointed. You either need a coin or screwdriver permanently at hand or have really long nails to remove/install the screw system and insure a tight fit. They seem to run around $100 but found it on primaryarms.com for $59. By the end, youll know the perfect light for you for your budget and purpose. !Here's a quick look at the Inforce APL and APLc pistol lights.Buy the APLc for Glock Here: https://goo.gl/JB1iPxBuy the APLc Standard Rail Here:. More visible but youll have to shell out a little more. I have a TLR-4 that is two years old with less than 500 rounds through my Sig P227 .45. Definitely a bump in the night light. Best cr 123 for tlr7, tlr hl, olight pl2, ect ? Your thoughts regarding the TRL8? Currently running glock 19, tlr 1 hl in T rex Appendix rig. I installed the APLc on compact sized handguns because its a smaller light than most other models. Ive always had good results from Streamlight ones. Definitely another vote for Olight. CTRL + SPACE for auto-complete. Dont get me wrong I absolutely love my Surefire X300 Ultras but on a hot summer day, they do tend to hot spot my hip occasionally. and our Its almost too bright for indoor use. It looks more snazzy than the full size version does on my Zev 17. The rest of the time it doesn't. good point. Drawing from concealment is also faster since there is less bulk and weight compared to other lights. I prefer a more focused hotspot like on the TLR-1HL and X300U. Were continually testing new versions of the TLR-6and the latest has to be on the Glock 43x. great review! Good size for compact and full-size handguns. $226. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Thanks in advance. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. There seems to be several ways to go about it. All (or at least most of whats worth having) of the light/laser combo's place their lasers in the unit where its farthest away from the rail when the unit is mounted. I hope I never have to deal with Olight warranty department with the only 2 products I will ever purchase. One you have to remove the damn the light, which mentioned above can be a chore in certain situations, and if it fails when in the middle of a classin the darkyou are in the same situation as you would be with an OLight, only I have a much easier detaching and mounting system to install another full charged light. We had tlr1 but the paddles are way too sensitive, ive had batteries go dead just from slipping it into a bag. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. It always has this faintly purple hue, especially when it starts to fade. Recently purchased the APLc and the APL. Id buy that right now if you do . Honestly for the price compared to others, I was disappointed. Is 200 lumens alot for a light on a pistol? CTRL + SPACE for auto-complete. Don't do this to your AR15! Plenty of holsters out now for most Olights. Specs The Inforce APLc is a compact 200 lumen light that fits either on Glock frame handguns or a standard 1913 Picatinny railed handguns. If this light had worked the way it is supposed to, it would definitely be a 5-star light, but for a weapon light it's pretty much all or nothing. Im an average joe that really loves talking with other people about firearms and other passions. I cannot recommend this model but so far the APLc has been working great. and our They fit well. The Wild 1 has the same inward-press aluminum switch design as the Wild 2, but the single battery installs through a removable bezel rather than the unique sliding mechanism . Color temp is a little bit more blue and "white" on the olight it seems. Are those times for the PL2 mini? INFORCE 200 Lumen APLc Glock Compact Weapon Light 4.7 rating with 125 reviews review & rate 30 Questions & 31 Answers INFORCE 200 Lumen APLc Glock Compact Weapon Light, Black, Flat Dark Earth INFORCE 200 Lumen APLc Glock Compact Weapon Light INFORCE APLc Glock Compact Weapon Light, 200 Lumens, 1 x CR2 Battery, Black, ACG-05-1 We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. TLR7 1913/Sig Sub Comparison Tactical Dev 48K views 1 year ago How to Appendix Carry Comfortably Tier 1 Concealed Is This The Glock Killer?? And we really dig the push-button access for the light. Please be more honest and clear about Olights. I completely agree with you remove this light from your list. Candela matters, a lot. I do some shooting with the new Streamlight TLR-7, do a beam comparison with the Inforce APLc and TLR-1 HL, and go over the. As a result, the bezel and lens of the light did get carboned up after shooting a couple of hundred rounds through it. What are the activation/toggle differences between Surefire and Streamlight? you a link to reset your password. You always want to make sure of your target (remember the 4 Firearm Safety Rules) and unless you have some sweet night-vision gogglesyoure going to want a flashlight when its dark. Nikon Coolpix A1000 Tutorial #1 Parts of the Camera & What They Do Digital Camera Basics, Thrunite BSS V4 Vs. Olight Warrior Mini 2 Vs. Streamlight Protac HL-X Vs. Fenix PD35, How To Mount A Weapon Light On Your Rifle. Brought to you by AROutfitting.Com, COPYRIGHT 2023 ARO NEWS - AROUTFITTING.COM. Inforce was kind to send me the APLc for testing. A light exists for you to identify a potential target. And inside you can see that wide angle throw again. I prefer it over the flush fit base plates. Been reading up on adding a light to my XL. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. A) Yes, the TLR7 Sub or TLR7A are the same width and are wider than the muzzle of the P365. I would have bought this but I got rid of my APL-C because I prefer the streamlight paddles. FS: Atlas Bipod, Custom G23 RMR slide, ETS mags, Jagerwerks, Recover G26/27, CZ Scorpion bits, etc. 130$ TLR9 1000 lumen 130$ WILD 1: $140 for a single battery compact 500-lumen pistol light(not shown in video) TLR7 500 lumen 130$ Only reason to get an inforce is to look space force. You got my sub! Each one has it own place the tlr1 is the duty work horse where the tlr7 is more of a concealed carry light. We'll assume you're ok with this, but you can opt-out if you wish. I called the vendor immediately. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Hey Andrew, thanks for reading! - Advertisement - EDITOR PICKS. First video. Plenty of lumens, ergonomic controls and demure size are my key points of interest. I like it but haven't used it enough to trust it 100%. For M&P try the 1913 #2 to snug it up against the trigger guard. The password should contain at least 8 characters with at least one number or special character. You can still use it on polymer guns but it could be rattling or damage the rails over time. Then when needed, quickly reattach it to his CCW if needed. Streamlight uses a replaceable rail key to. As a whole, the MINI 2 Valkryie is a very usable light. Heres me using it in a recent night competition. Was considering the Streamlight pro tac but at 625 lumens outdoors may leave a bit to be desired Olights suck i own 2 and their run times are a complete lie they are bright, but that does you NO good when you are waiting for it to recharge buy something that you can swap batteries in if needed Klarus GL1 looks like a decent budget option at $69. The Streamlight TLR-7 is the long-awaited (for me anyway) compact light from a company known for making quality products that push the boundaries. Get proficient on YOUR time. Don't do this to your AR15! I am just starting to look into getting my 1st gun light, for my nightstand Glock 19. And with the MINI 2 you can adjust the rail placement from all the way in to far out so it will fit virtually any handgun. After 7 years of faithful service on my Glock 17it now lives on my Stag Arms 9mm AR-15 (review) specifically for night matches. It makes it super easy to take on and off your handgun. Assembuilding an AR-10 in 6.5 Creedmoor. Such as the Olight PL-MINI, 400 lumens. coat your lens with chapstick before the range. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I may earn a small part of the sale from links to any products or services on this site. My 100 lumen TLR-1s has a notably brighter sndpre defined hot spot. Its main contenders are the TLR-1 HL and Surefire series. Hey guys I found an issue with the TLR-7&8 design, please put it out there. 5 hours of runtime. The light is super bright and very focused. Again you get tons of lumens at a nicer price. Sure you can go with a handheld light (check our Best Tactical Flashlights), but a mounted pistol light is already attached and gives you two hands-free with a strong grip.
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